Georgina Currall: ‘I can be a mother and a businesswoman’
Castle’s Director, Georgina Currall, talks about being a mother, running multiple successful businesses and prospering as a woman in business. Her journey has led to creating an agency that champions women and creates equal opportunities for all.
“I’m really proud that Castle is such a strong supporter of women of all ages. It’s always been so important for me to create opportunities for women. We have a range of people working here, and our workforce is almost an even 50/50 split of men and women. 55% of our management team are women.”
Gina is the Director of Castle, one of the northwest’s leading marketing agencies, and is constantly striving to create opportunities for women to grow and thrive both in the agency and for their own professional development.
Over the years, Gina has experienced first-hand gender bias and sexism in the business world. This has been a driving factor behind the culture of inclusivity she has developed within Castle, and the positive changes she is continuing to make. In this interview, she provides some interesting insights into what it’s like to be a female business leader and the way women in powerful positions are treated in comparison to their male counterparts.
“I’m proud Castle is such a strong supporter of women of all ages.”
“My husband Dean is from a family of strong women too. Women with big personalities, women who aren’t afraid to speak their opinions and are quite encouraging of other women. So, he naturally has that in him, which along with my own drivers has helped create a business culture like the one we have. I’ve personally known directors before, select their workforce based on ‘issues that come with being a woman, such as emotion or the possibility they may want maternity-leave based on their age, this is obviously based on gender stereotypes. I’ve even known it to be used the other way, you know, “she’s a woman, she’ll be organised.” That can’t be assumed, some women are very organised, but so are some men. The point being that, gender bias does not exist here, we look at people for their personality and skills, rather than gender.”
So, what’s your opinion on gender bias in marketing?
“Historically, the marketing industry was a young, male-dominated industry, I believe times are changing because we’re seeing more and more female marketers coming through. But I think gender bias does still exist across other sectors.”
“This is why it’s so important to me that we continue to create a culture of inclusivity at Castle, and a business that champions and celebrates strong women. When we started Castle, one of my goals was to have an equal workforce and to create opportunities for women to thrive. We’ve achieved that, so our next step is not only to maintain the level we’re at but also to help and support the women here to develop in their careers and to give them the platform to have their voices, their ideas, their opinions heard.”
I bet there have been loads of times where you’ve experienced this over the years?
“Oh god, so many. Events where old men would ‘tap’ my bum, or being made to sell raffle tickets just because I was the only woman in the room. Honestly, it was like I was some kind of showpiece myself! Or just loads of general leary or sexist comments, particularly when we were dealing with companies in very male-dominated sectors, such as manufacturing.”
“Some of these men are very confident in their own opinions and think that because they are from a world where these things have always been said over years and years, that their opinions are the norm. They don’t realise that these things are just not ok. Not that they ever were ok, but they were often accepted. I occasionally found this to still be the case for our leadership lunches. The odd sexist joke would be made by some guests, where the perpetrator would look at me ‘knowingly’ as if I agreed with or understood their remark.”
Do you think you get treated differently by Dean professionally?
“I used to go into a lot of sales meetings with Dean for the first two-three years, where people would regularly ignore me and speak to Dean. They’d shake his hand but not mine. And something that would happen extremely regularly…if we were all talking and I asked a question, their answer would be directed to Dean, as if he had asked the question.”
“In the past, I’ve found that, if Dean said something, it got done with urgency. Whereas things I requested would limp on and on until I kicked up a fuss about it taking time. And even then, it would be met with the clear notion that the person in question thought I was ‘nagging’. There have been instances where I have said an idea, been ignored, then Dean’s reiterated my point and suddenly it’s the best idea they’ve ever heard of!”
“People also see Dean as being a passionate or tenacious leader when he drives the same points home over and over. But when I do it people again just think I’m banging on. Now, because of the culture, we have worked so hard to develop, both internally and with our clients, these instances are becoming less and less.”
Gendered terms and stereotypes are often placed on women
‘Nagging’ is such a derogatory term for women and one that is rarely used to describe a man. There are so many examples of these gendered terms or stereotypes which are placed on women. For example, the term ‘bossy’ is often used to describe women who tell people what to do. If a man was to do the same thing, it’d just be seen as giving direction, being assertive and accepted as him being a leader.
In so many other languages, like French, there are feminine and masculine words for loads of different objects; we don’t have that in the English language. But we definitely have words that are used for men and words that are used for women like nagging, petite, graceful, bossy… even in the Oxford dictionary ‘nagging’ used to be followed by the example phrase of a ‘nagging wife’, something which only in 2020 is being changed!
“Businesses need to give women a platform for their voices to be heard.”
“I’m not a particularly loud spoken person, especially when I was younger. I don’t necessarily command a room, and that’s fine. I’m happy being that way, but there should just be a forum so women’s input is heard. You shouldn’t have to have a booming voice for people to listen.”
This is something that many females may have felt. Some women just are more softly spoken than men. Many men do just have louder, deeper voices. But this doesn’t mean women know less or don’t deserve the same amount of respect.
Businesswoman and mother
As well as being a successful businesswoman, Gina is also a mother to a 17-month-old son. For women in business, the decision to have a child can be a difficult one. Women are so often unfairly discriminated against for having children, whilst men can have as many children as they want without it having the same effect. Men don’t have to choose between a career and becoming a father in the same way women do.
“I want it to be clear to employers who make recruitment decisions based on gender, that their perceptions are wrong. There are many women out there who do not want to be a stay-at-home mum, who want to get back to their careers. There shouldn’t be the option of one or the other, you can have both. I can be a mum and be a businesswoman. There may be some changes that have to be made, for example, I now work 4 days a week as I want Friday to be a family day, but that doesn’t mean I am not doing my job properly, it just means I work even harder the days that I do work.”
“For women who do want to be a stay-at-home mum, that’s ok. For women that want to return to work, that’s ok too. It’s your prerogative and it’s about giving women the freedom to choose.”
“It’s so important to have equal opportunities in the workplace. I don’t want the women that work here to feel as though they have to choose between their career and having a child or worry that they’ll not have a job to come back to after maternity leave. Being a mother does not affect your ability to work and I would never discriminate against anyone for having children.”
Tell us about some of the women who have inspired you in your career.
“My mum has always been a very career-driven woman. She was Head of HR at Edge Hill University and worked there for 23 years. In the evenings she did courses and worked towards professional qualifications while we were younger. She supported my dad in running his restaurant, handwriting menus, waitressing and doing the books. Whilst I was doing my GCSE’s and my older sister was doing her A-levels, my mum not only supported us, but she was also in her final year of a degree level CIPD course. She never stopped. She started at Edge Hill in a general admin role in HR and worked her way up. Back then it was just a small university college. She’s grown her career whilst playing a part in Edge Hill itself growing into the huge institution it is now. Her achievements have been phenomenal.”
“I believe that because I’ve always had this female role model. It’s always been clear to me what women are capable of, what we can achieve. She is an inspiration.”
What improvements do you think need to be made to the business community for businesswomen?
“There are obviously organisations that are striving towards making improvements for women in the city. But like with a lot of things, their work is never complete.”
“For me, I do often find women’s events quite condescending, this applies to events outside of our city too. They often tend to be pink-themed or centred around shopping or beauty or cocktails. All really girly things. I’m not a girly-girl. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I do like some of these things, but I don’t want to go to a business event about them! So, I find it condescending that people think because the event centres around women, they have to provide these things to draw us in. I just think that wouldn’t be done for a mixed event. There wouldn’t be something specific to males for a male event. You may have the odd event that does, but it wouldn’t be across the board.”
“There was one I was invited to, which was a workshop on how to ‘strut’ into a room. I don’t want to strut into a room full of people…Why do I need to learn how to strut? What’s wrong with the way I walk? Is the way I walk going to bring me more business? I don’t think so.”
“Not all women in business want to go to pink-themed events that serve cocktails. What most women in business want, is to have the forum to be on the same level as their male counterparts or their peers.”
“Surely these kinds of events are not what we are aiming for? Women want to be equal and respected as much as their male peers in the business world. Not to go to events for women that are pink, sparkly and girly.”
“Don’t get me wrong, there are lots of women who enjoy these events, but there are also lots that don’t. You feel like you stick out like a sore thumb because you’re not enthusiastic about the makeup tricks they’re showing you. Lots of the conversation is centred around the struggle of being a woman in business. But who is that for? It’s not getting fed back to any men. There are no men present or even invited so what is progressive about it? So, we are just all moaning about it between ourselves, there’s no action taken.”
“In our agency, I really want there to be an open conversation between the women and men that work here. If we don’t include men in the conversation, how can we expect them to understand? If we don’t help them to understand, how can we expect change?”
“Moving forward, my vision for Castle is for it to be wholly inclusive. Equality and diversity are a core part of our culture. We celebrate and lift up the amazing women that work at Castle. We praise their achievements and give them the platform to express their views. Castle has always done this and always will, it doesn’t just stop, it evolves.”